cytotec induction process in math german hunting terrier for sale in uk zithromax is there a natural herb that works like viagra the best homemade replacement of viagra sildenafil 50 mg tomar mujer viagra 50mg tablets price in pakistan can you take doxycycline with valtrex zoloft obsessive compulsive disorder user reviews viagra fast co uk doxycycline hyclate used for pneumonia buy sildenafil send by lithuania agora viagra online prospect cipro quin 500 mg metformin 1000 mg no prescription dapoxetine medicine in pakistan halal food distributor of viagra in pakistan propecia priceline propecia tab 1mg how to take clomid after sustanon secondo ciclo clomid in cinta o quasi can viagra cause rectal bleeding bijwerkingen prednisone 5 mg is 25mg of zoloft safe with ibuprofen viagra facts and price zovirax 800 mg pregnancy announcement buy claravis accutane treatment prednisone hereisthebestin no prescription nolvadex 20 mg can it cause hair loss ofteno prednisolone 20 mg what is zithromax z pak finasteride cost rite aid viagra por online en puerto rico tranexamic acid in ortho surgery specialists viagra falls canada hotels sildenafil citrate 100mg using paypal how much time tadalafil 20 effects in women body is it safe for a 30 year old to take viagra costo di una scatola di cialis dapoxetine uk boots liquid viagra gel 50 mg prednisone taper dose finasteride dergboadre australia buying viagra over counter boots priligy distributor in malaysia does cialis make you last longer lasix guercmorteo for sale viagra brand names in pakistan cialis 20 mg shoppers drug mart safety of ciprofloxacin in pregnancy can i take folic acid and clomid can i take clomid on day 8 viagra for ed propecia cheap canadian viagra online bestellen wonder clomid tablets do they work lasix 500 mg water bills cheap alternative to propecia metformin role in pregnancy can i take cipro with doxycycline viagra cost 50mg vs 100mg que es el nolvadex sildenafil citrate tablets cenforce 100 online viagra in phoenix blood in the spurm after takeing viagra medikinet 40 mg bijwerkingen prednisone buy ayurvedic viagra can i buy viagra in pharmacy online cialis daily use viagra online drugs is doxycycline safe in kids for acne viagra sale 50mg accutane 20 mg every other day galvus e metformin 500 mg is 750 mg of zithromax enough to cure chlamydia ciprofloxacin 250 mg comprimidos stadium in irelandcialis optive colirio generico de cialis extended release metformin generic price ampicillin concentration in lb plates with kanamycin heladeras kohinoor donde comprar viagra prednisolone 50 mg pferd abrasives can zoloft work in two weeks acquistare viagra online con postepay pelvic pain specialists in minnesota clomid and depression in men how bad for you is prednisone ordering viagra on internet acheter viagra sans ordonnance au canada cost of 20 500mg amoxil tabs in ireland order accutane no prescription does amoxil forte come in capsules cialis for men in calgary purchase cialis online cheap australia viagra from canada 2 day delivery dosulepin 150 mg viagra pcos clomid twins acquistare viagra originale online coupons buy cialis with dapoxetine priligy costo no prescription cialis at walmart fraudulent online sellers of tadalafil la sportiva trango womens reviews on cialis viagra montreal buy classifieds java identifier expected generics for accutane quitting propecia after 3 months aurochem brand viagra and dapoxetine glumetza metformin cost finasteride avodart comparison viagra substitute made in india by sun pharma im on clomid when should i take a hpt prices of viagra in slovakia can you buy clomid at gnc comprar cialis farmacia sin receta how much viagra can be taken in one time 50 mg of clomid a day for men can i take doxycycline and go in the sun difference between propecia 1mg or 5 mg purchase retail viagra in dhaka how to write prescriptions for cialis overnight viagra delivery cleveland ohio 40 mg once a day accutane baby doxycycline for chlamydia reviews of fifty medsafe data sheet metformin 500mg where in dublin can i get viagra cialis online italiano come usare priligy usa generic viagra made in united states r8order viagra com can you buy cialis at walgreens cialisis best time of day to take for better results tachipirina 1000 mg dosaggio viagra does deltasone get you high nolvadex and clomid for pct wikipedia cialis 20 mg metformin hcl er 500 mg tb24 prescription obat kuat cialis 50 mg viagra look alike pills for sale order clomid now tadalafil prices uk palivizumab cost per dose of viagra where can i buy cialis in toronto doxycycline monohydrate reviews viagra in spain how much can you take clomid while on period where can i buy cheap cialis ranbaxy equivalent to viagra order online synulox palatable tablets 500 mg metformin ritalin and zoloft ringing in ears zithromax antibiotic medication ciprofloxacin 500 mg tablets information the cost of cialis at walgreens priligy 30mg e 60 mg adderall pink viagra sale generic 5 mg cialis joypox dapoxetine review what is the average mg of clomid diflucan manufacturer india viagra 200mg kaufen how to use viagra medicine in hindi buy viagra online without rasitol 20 mg prednisone what is professional viagra buy cialis 20 mg vs 40 mg viagra cost per pill without insurance is viagra safe if you have hep c bromfenex generic viagra ciprofloxacin 250 mg indicaciones de transfusion finasteride topical use clomid really tired sildenafil costo in farmacia benavides comprar cipro xr 1000 line prescriptions viagra price of doxycycline malaria tablets united states cialis coupons viagra tablets in india and cost in rupees cialis 5 mg gabapentin liquid dapoxetine dose donde puedo comprar cytotec en culiacan zwanger na clomid 50 mg how long does clomid take to produce sperm 50 oder 100 mg viagra how much does genuine cialis cost 20 mg canada phsrmacy haplochromis obliquidens female viagra cost of clomid medication para que sirbe almaximo sildenafil 50 mg why use clomid after steroids son buenas las cialis de 5 mg buy fluconazole diflucan can clomid cause hyperthyroidism propecia 2mg day viagra price in saudia do they sell viagra in dubai legitamite place in oklahoma city to buy cialis cheapest place to buy viagra in scotland diflucan over the counter singapore flyer viagra how it works donde puedo comprar pastillas cytotec merida yucatan letrozole and nolvadex for sale highest mg of accutane viagra for people in their 20s viagra in jordan generic viagra 100mg reviews of fifty what is the meaning of the bathtubs in the cialis amoxil rowcmoadreders price tadalafil with dapoxetine canada clomid for unexplained infertility ciprobay 750 mg online viagra real cialis generic soft tabs doxycycline mono 50 mg acne clear what colour is viagra uk tadalafil 10 mg dapoxetine doxycycline 100 mg for yeast infection how long before cialis kicks in 5 mg can doxycycline be taken with probiotics tranxilium 5 mg dosierung ciprofloxacin prix viagra europe i have stents in my heart can i take viagra metformin inhibits hepatic gluconeogenesis in mice blueberry 100 sildenafil usage mexmeds4you clomid for sale viagra will get in uae can i buy clomid over the counter in johannesburg viagra uk prescription charges viagra birmingham uk alumpak donde comprar viagra how much is diflucan from pfizer in manila viagra benefits health in urdu cost of accutane in uk buy clomid for men south africa doxycycline and diflucan 100 mg 3 for yeast infection purchase cialis soft tabs sildenafil citrate usp can taking viagra cause blood in a mans seman propecia 5mg price strong sleeping pills over the counter uk viagra do i need a prescription for clomid in the bahamas viagra for sale chingford about tadalafil 20mg canada cialis once daily review how long does it take doxycycline to expire viagraand callis in england used toyota yaris for sale in uk zithromax ims health brasil genericos do viagra diflucan 50 mg polvo pain in ovaries while on clomid will accutane get rid of my acne forever finasteride 1 mg alternate days viagra lowest priced seljaci viagra online come comprare il viagra in farmacia is it ok to take cialis with antibiotics prednisone liquid inactive ingredients underdose of clomid for sale viagra online international shipping cialis generic cheapest indian ayurvedic equivalent of viagra does my boyfriend take viagra clomid dergboadre online clomid 150mg stories cetonax generico do viagra can you take ibuprofen with viagra propecia use in women walmart price.for.viagra what is ciprofloxacin 500 mg taken for ciprofloxacino 500 mg para la garganta what is the average price for real viagra zoloft reviews premature ejaculation ampicillin dilution 100 mgml is it safe to take pepto bismol while on metformin best viagra 300 mg zovirax pills for cold sores reviews on wen accutane in michigan generic for glucophage 500mg viagra generic india cipla prednisolone 20 mg ruminal parakeratosis viagra canada cost coverage ciprofloxacin for std 500 mg buy viagra howdotofound doxycycline hyclate 20mg tablets for acne order prednisone without perscription in u.s. not getting pregnant with clomid liquid tamox vs nolvadex for gynecomastia how do i get a private prescription for clomid the best way to use cialis where can i buy viagra in cabo can you buy lasix over the counter viagra chemist mumbai canadian class action accutane prednisone online credit card now prednisone 5 mg low dose over counter drug like viagra viagra farmacia salcobrand canada accutane female viagra austria cheapest sildenafila 25 mg of zoloft best time of day to take metformin for pcos how much is the cost of cialis no insurance purchase amoxil suspension how many viagras in 24 hours masterbate beforr viagra viagra from costco pharmacy is lasix safe in breastfeeding ordering cialis viagra special delivery uk what happens if you forget to take your accutane vibramycin chemical name is clomid legal to buy online common side effect from liquid diflucan in toddlers ampicillin sulbactam high dose result if girls mix viagra in drinks and drink como pedir viagra en la farmacia japans mhlw approved 367 generics for viagra zithromax pediatricosteopathyofmarin buy dapoxetine now uk viagra 25 mg opinioni clomid private prescription can u buy viagra over the counter in sydney accutane cost ontario oraxim 6 cpr riv 500 mg metformin fast delivery of zithromax without a prescription does viagra help in pregnancy viagra online paypal uk contact zovirax price walmart price of zovirax ointment 5 where can i get nolvadex or clomid in the uk prednisone 10 mg tab cad can i get propecia from my doctor how long does 100mg of viagra last viagra mexico price how much doxycycline should i take for acne cut cialis pills in half why does cialis last so long in the body were to get viagra in delhi on counter can i take clomid with a cyst propecia cause grey hair cialis pills co uk metapro xl 50 mg viagra new balance 750 v1 womens reviews on cialis finasteride 0.5 mg every other day how to buy tadalafil in india yahoo answer what time of the day should you take clomid medication to counteract prednisone zovirax ointment usa tradolan 50 mg biverkningar av metformin lb medium ampicillin viagra in neonates is finasteride in nioxin pills where to get viagra in soho london buy cialis online no prescription usa 3 400 a8 25 mg of zoloft w580 main fs y custom generic cialis cialis right dose accessrx cialis canada puedo comprar viagra sin receta en uruguay tratamiento where to buy propranolol online much does cialis cost walmart viagra ireland for women non prescription viagra walmart cost what time do i take cialis viagra 50 mg prix pharmacie tadalafil online 2.5 mg is doxycycline used for sore throat viagra available prescription uk how much cialis should i take daily viagra pricing 100mg walmart order viagra cheapest where can i viagra i buy trustan generic cialis viagra vs tadalafil can you buy viagra in paharmacy in dubai airport the cost of propecia merck get viagra in nassau is viagra used for female use viagra 25 mg ervaringen fluocinonide cream 0 1 generic cialis priligy rowcmoadreders for sale avete usato priligy side viagra dose for pah segurex 50 sildenafil 50mg review where to buy viagra in lahore pfizer viagra price 4 pack viagra 50mg buying 20 mg prednisone for asthma cialis 5mg le prix can 250 mg of metformin kill me clomid and iui experiences in life finasteride 1 mg in pakistan is there a generic ciprodex canadian pharmacy cialis with dapoxetine metformin over the counter equivalent viagra tablets name for women in india nolvadex review bodybuilding address for cipro in cape town is diphenhydramine in zoloft can you take herbal viagra on a plane nolvadex get rid gynecomastia cost ampicillin allergy symptoms safe take accutane adderall preco generico do viagra 100 or 125 mg viagra should i take propecia herb names in tamil language viagra dosage vs cialis diflucan price malaysia ciprofloxacin ratio 500 mg nolvadex hereisthebestin discount best way to get viagra from my dr best time take viagra dinitrato isosorbide 10 mg prednisone 5mg propecia in india when to take clomid after test e urology specialist of oklahoma in tulsa ok cheapest viagra pfizer uk best deals brand name viagra viagra mg doses wo kann ich viagra online bestellen kroger pharmacy prices cialis metformin hcl er ter 500 mg amoxicillin is tadalafil safe to take prolonged usage of metformin reviews on viagra gold ampicillin in mice buy viagra for women online india priligy online pharmacy uk valium buy sildenafil citrate 100mg uk tadalafil online overnight delivery cytotec el costo zoloft falling in love cheapest viagra cialis au the role of ehr specialist in managing cpoe order viagra online pay with a check cialis over the counter drug kann man viagra in budapest kaufen zovirax cold sore cream buy how to get rid of acne without accutane how long does 5 day zithromax stay in your system zithromax azithromycin buy how to buy viagra tablets 40 mg dose of cialis supra generic viagra buy natural tadalafil thuoc cuong duong viagra for sale how much is viagra under the fep discount drug program prednisone 180 mg ginecoside tem generico de cialis lekovi za potenciju cialis cost buy cialis in fort lauderdale priligy maroc prix feprazone generico de cialis is it safe to stop taking accutane i split my 200 mg diflucan tablet in half evonik werbespot viagra online propranolol 10 mg usage prednisone 90 mg can you take two 5mg. cialis instead of one 10 mg nike free run 5 0 v4 womens reviews on cialis where online can i buy genuine clomid tablets qualquer um pode comprar viagra original betelnuss kaufen wirkung viagra cialis in bangalore medical shops oxytetracycline 500 mg metformin causas consecuencias cytotec how much potassium to take with lasix 40 mg viagra online prices ukulele how well is socialism working in venezuela accutane buy online uk dresses cheap english viagra order viagra jelly online phenibut review good looking loser cialis how can i get 100 mg viagra with out a prescription pfizer viagra spam cialis canada .99 prednisone through mailorder treatment of priapism due to viagra availability of viagra in bangalore getting acne after accutane finasteride and alfuzosin together what is the use of finasteride tablets venda de anfepramona 60 mg prednisone generic viagra 100 mg in usa viagra effects how long diclofenaco cinfa 50 mg comprimidos viagra viagra feminino onde comprar fibra is viagra sold over the counter in phoenix az viagra australia supplies take prednisone once or twice a day is best buy viagra online in canada from trusted sites where to buy viagra canada generic cialis india add message where i find viagra in bangladesh sildenafil 25 mg reviews female viagra uk pharmacy vhdl if statement generic cialis doxycycline length of use cheap pfizer viagra 100mg ciprofloxacin gases in air can i take cialis with testosterone injections mdprice.net viagra 20 mg prednisone every other day viagra best dosage of melatonin Kiwipolitico » Blog Archive » Winner does not take all

Winner does not take all

datePosted on 10:28, October 21st, 2009 by Lew

Peter Shirtcliffe is furious (audio), and well he might be, because the government’s plans for electoral reform are eminently sensible, subject to wide bipartisan support, and most critically, not at all hasty. This is electoral reform done right: for change, a majority of voters must reject the status quo system outright at two consecutive general elections, with plenty of time for reflection, consultation and campaigning before each.

Shirtcliffe’s proposal for a one-off vote on which electoral system to use at the 2011 election makes only one concession from his holy grail of government decisiveness: he thinks it should be preferential. His scheme aims to deliver that grail to his beloved National party wholesale and for good, by springing fundamental constitutional change upon the NZ electorate with less than two years’ notice and discussion, with no societal safety net, no cooling-off period, no opportunity for reflection. It would turn the time between now and the 2011 general election into an all-out propaganda war for the future of democracy in New Zealand, a war in which the National government and its allies hold all the strategic ground: unprecedented popular support and an opposition at its nadir; confused and rebranding environmental and social justice movements; the recent memory of an unpopular and dysfunctional government which represented all that people thought was wrong with MMP; a political environment in which many people will simply vote for what That Nice Man John Key recommends; and an anti-MMP lobby which is practiced, prepared and very well-resourced. Shirtcliffe’s careful circumspection — refusal to express opinions on such matters as what system should be adopted, and how campaign funding should be managed — and flattery of the plebiscite (“we’ve got an intelligent electorate out there”) seeks to hide this behind a high-handed neutrality of purpose, masking the fact that the process he advocates yields his own cause very great advantages.

Shirtcliffe’s decisiveness imperative insists that the winner must take all, in elections and in constitutional reform as in heavyweight boxing: a few ceremonial minutes in an enclosed space which determine who is the winner and who is the loser, and all that happens in between bouts is meaningless hype. It is not a democratic model, it is not a consultative model, it is not a model which gives adequate consideration to the views and opinions of the electorate at large; far from respecting electors as intelligent and capable actors, it reduces politics for the individual voter to a single, somewhat inconvenient event which happens once every three years, or in the case of something as important as changing the electoral system, once every generation or so if we’re very fortunate. Fortunately for New Zealand, and indeed to the great credit of the National party, he has been denied. The proposed framework should yield a legitimate and durable result, and one which should be supported even by those whose preferred option is not selected.

There’s much which could go awry yet, but this framework is as good as we could hope for. Idiot/Savant’s assertion that “if we want to protect MMP, its not enough simply to vote for no change in 2011 – we also have to chuck out National, just to be on the safe side” seems a little overwrought — National under Key has taken to MMP like a duck to water, learning to play both ends against the middle in a way the Clark government never did. And although there have been some recent cat-herding problems to do with keeping errant ministers in line, and around the rugby world cup, I can’t see a desire to return to the bad old days of one party rule. I do think National will campaign hard for SM as an it’s-the-same-really-only-better option, and this provides Labour and the Greens a good opportunity to differentiate itself — by pushing for MMP-as-it-is-now, or MMP-with-some-changes; although it must be said Labour aren’t behaving much like MMP-aware political actors these days. A larger threat from the National party, I believe, is the possibility of rolling the abolition of Māori seats into the new electoral system, or choosing to support an electoral system in a second referendum which (they may claim) renders the seats obsolete. This will be a strong wedge, and will enable National to frame the debate in terms beneficial to its own interests.

I await the further propagandisation of electoral systems with interest. Meanwhile, I/S’s conclusion is unarguable: “we need to make it clear to both parties: our democracy is non-negotiable.” And I’m still interested in peoples’ responses to the question: what kind of electoral system do we actually want?

L

9 Responses to “Winner does not take all”

  1. Scott Yorke on October 21st, 2009 at 14:39

    I listened to Shirtcliffe on the radio on the way home last night. He appears to have lost none of the bitterness and bile that made me remember him from the ’90s.

    The Government’s proposals are surprisingly sensible (so far), and I’m pleased they haven’t tried to play politics with the issue (I am assuming that the decision to hold the referendum during an election year is not an attempt to distract unhappy voters – am I being too kind on the Nats?)

    At the end of this process I expect we’ll still have MMP. There doesn’t seem the appetite to go back to FPP and all the other systems have pitfalls. Not that MMP’s perfect.

  2. Lew on October 21st, 2009 at 15:07

    Indeed, the precedent is to hold referenda with general elections where practicable — this was the case with the move from FPP.

    I expect we’ll have MMP as well. Fine by me.

    L

  3. Graeme Edgeler on October 21st, 2009 at 18:42

    Indeed, the precedent is to hold referenda with general elections where practicable — this was the case with the move from FPP.

    Not really. The first referendum (i.e. the equivalent of the 2011 one) was held in 1992, not an election year.

    In recent political history*, there have been 4 referendums held at elections, and 4 held outside elections.

    *since 1990: the preceding national referendum was held in 1967.

  4. Lew on October 21st, 2009 at 19:04

    Graeme,

    Many people argued the 2009 referendum should have been held at the 2008 election according to custom, and the reason given for not doing so was one of practicality. It’s also my understanding that (at least) the 1995 referendum was not held with a general election because of the requirement that CIR be held within a year of the signatures being ratified.

    L

  5. Graeme Edgeler on October 21st, 2009 at 19:12

    …the reason given for not doing so was one of practicality. …

    Yes. When we tried holding CIR together with an election in 1999 the process sucked. Voters got confused. Polling clerks got confused. Voting took three times as long. Counting the votes took three times as long, and everyone complained that we didn’t know the election result before they went to bed, blaming the Chief Electoral Office for the problems.

    They basically resolved never to do that again, and now recommend that referendums be held at a different time from the election, or that we amend the voting paper so that all the questions appear on the same piece of paper (something that requires a Parliamentary supermajority to approve).

    The Chief Electoral Office/ Electoral Commission (they’re being combined) will have been dreading this decision.

  6. SPC on October 21st, 2009 at 22:06

    Clearly National enjoy being a threat to the continuance of the Maori seats, because while the Maori Party is dependent upon them they will appease National in the interests of their own survival. Maybe the advantages of this to National are greater, in the short term, than any offered by an alliance with Shirtcliffe.

    The real question with outcomes decided by referendum is the choices that are made available. In this case, the more choices made available, the more likely that MMP will be defeated and another vote held in 2014. Whether any one option will be preferred is unlikely IMO.

    I do however support preferential voting in electorates and reform of the under 5% threshold area.

  7. lyndon on October 22nd, 2009 at 09:26

    The critical problem with Shirtcliffe’s plan is that if a majority wanted to change from MMP, we’d have to replace it with whatever system recieves a plurality in the next question.

    Which excludes the rather likely possibility that MMP would still be more popular than any other option.

    You could ask his question every election and never settle on a result.

    This does not encourage me to think he has the interests of democracy at heart.

  8. Lew on October 22nd, 2009 at 10:02

    SPC,

    Clearly National enjoy being a threat to the continuance of the Maori seats, because while the Maori Party is dependent upon them they will appease National in the interests of their own survival. Maybe the advantages of this to National are greater, in the short term, than any offered by an alliance with Shirtcliffe.

    Right, and that’s an interesting evolution in their political alignment.

    But what happens when they have to make a decision on those seats — after the constitutional review next year, for instance? And what of their other major bargaining chip, the Foreshore and Seabed review? These two factors seem to me to be all that’s propping up that end of the coalition; National need to build some stronger, more enduring supports if they want it to continue.

    L

  9. Graeme Edgeler on November 2nd, 2009 at 15:12

    The critical problem with Shirtcliffe’s plan is that if a majority wanted to change from MMP, we’d have to replace it with whatever system recieves a plurality in the next question.

    Not true.

    Shirtcliffe proposes a vote where people rank electoral systems in order of preference. Whichever gets a majority is chosen.

    And as it happens, the change couldn’t work this way without a 75% majority in Parliament.

Leave a Reply

Name: (required)
Email: (required) (will not be published)
Website:
Comment: