<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: On the Strategic Utility of Terrorism.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:46:33 -0700</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-15112</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 22:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-15112</guid>
		<description>http://johannhari.com/2009/11/16/meet-the-ex-jihadis

Hardly a robust statistical survey, but makes very interesting reading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p><a href="http://johannhari.com/2009/11/16/meet-the-ex-jihadis" rel="nofollow">http://johannhari.com/2009/11/16/meet-the-ex-jihadis</a></p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Hardly a robust statistical survey, but makes very interesting reading.
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SPC</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14889</link>
		<dc:creator>SPC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 09:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14889</guid>
		<description>I wonder whether there is not some attempt to manage &quot;transition to economic and political globalisation&quot; via resort to intimidation of domestic populations.  This being the establishment form of terrorism (and I do include holy war end time religion at war on secular society in this). This would also explain why &quot;security powers&quot; and &quot;surveillance&quot; tends to drift towards focus on all of those seen as problematic dissidents questioning globalisation, rather than simply terrorists and associates. 

Is globalisation the emergence of the cause or the cause of the counter-terrorism emergence?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>I wonder whether there is not some attempt to manage &#8220;transition to economic and political globalisation&#8221; via resort to intimidation of domestic populations.  This being the establishment form of terrorism (and I do include holy war end time religion at war on secular society in this). This would also explain why &#8220;security powers&#8221; and &#8220;surveillance&#8221; tends to drift towards focus on all of those seen as problematic dissidents questioning globalisation, rather than simply terrorists and associates. </p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Is globalisation the emergence of the cause or the cause of the counter-terrorism emergence?
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Phil Sage</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14874</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Sage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 20:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14874</guid>
		<description>There are over 1.2 billion muslims who have a stranglehold on the worlds current source of transportable energy.  They only need to acquiese in the battles of a small minority, for the consequence to be a protracted war.  Communism lasted from 1916 until 1989.  I am not a pessimist that the West will lose as I agree that self determination will overcome corrupt elites.

Communism was fated to fail from the start but it took more than 70 years or 3 generations. The tactics of appeasement and complacency have been shown not to work.  The first attack in the world trade centre was 1993.  8 years later the jihadists achieved success.  Now is the time to double down and follow McChrystals strategy rather than withdraw.

The world will be a much less safe place over coming decades if the jihadist terrorists are able to claim any defeat of the West.

Obama needs to confront Netanyahu and bring peace to that region or the spectre of terrorism will continue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>There are over 1.2 billion muslims who have a stranglehold on the worlds current source of transportable energy.  They only need to acquiese in the battles of a small minority, for the consequence to be a protracted war.  Communism lasted from 1916 until 1989.  I am not a pessimist that the West will lose as I agree that self determination will overcome corrupt elites.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Communism was fated to fail from the start but it took more than 70 years or 3 generations. The tactics of appeasement and complacency have been shown not to work.  The first attack in the world trade centre was 1993.  8 years later the jihadists achieved success.  Now is the time to double down and follow McChrystals strategy rather than withdraw.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>The world will be a much less safe place over coming decades if the jihadist terrorists are able to claim any defeat of the West.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Obama needs to confront Netanyahu and bring peace to that region or the spectre of terrorism will continue.
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SPC</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14853</link>
		<dc:creator>SPC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 06:40:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14853</guid>
		<description>Which appears to be the factor in common amongst those who resort to terrorism against each other - an inclusive tolerant society where rule is by consent is at odds with their own authoritarianism - and justification for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Which appears to be the factor in common amongst those who resort to terrorism against each other &#8211; an inclusive tolerant society where rule is by consent is at odds with their own authoritarianism &#8211; and justification for it.
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SPC</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14851</link>
		<dc:creator>SPC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 06:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14851</guid>
		<description>While it is clear that popular support for terrorism is waning, it would be premature to presume from this that support for the causes in which terrorism has been used will also fall. 

Terrorism can be supplanted by ownership of WMD or resort to conventional force (if the western forces left Afghanistan the Taleban would prevail just as the North did when entering Saigon) - unilaterally or multi-laterally.

Terrorism is a declaration of resistance, resistance can continue in rejection of secularism and election of Islamic parties after violent overthrown of established regimes and installation of Islamic republics.

The irony is that it is a supposed fear of this violent overthrow of established regimes or the popularity of Islamist parties which is cited as a security interest (by regimes) in the prevention of democratic reform.  And thus fear of the &quot;resistance&quot; prevents democratic secularisation.  Maybe the terrorists, Islamists and established regimes need each other to prevent the change which they all fear?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>While it is clear that popular support for terrorism is waning, it would be premature to presume from this that support for the causes in which terrorism has been used will also fall. </p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Terrorism can be supplanted by ownership of WMD or resort to conventional force (if the western forces left Afghanistan the Taleban would prevail just as the North did when entering Saigon) &#8211; unilaterally or multi-laterally.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Terrorism is a declaration of resistance, resistance can continue in rejection of secularism and election of Islamic parties after violent overthrown of established regimes and installation of Islamic republics.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>The irony is that it is a supposed fear of this violent overthrow of established regimes or the popularity of Islamist parties which is cited as a security interest (by regimes) in the prevention of democratic reform.  And thus fear of the &#8220;resistance&#8221; prevents democratic secularisation.  Maybe the terrorists, Islamists and established regimes need each other to prevent the change which they all fear?
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pablo</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14847</link>
		<dc:creator>Pablo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 04:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14847</guid>
		<description>Thanks all for the informed responses. There is much to reflect on but I shall limit myself to a few points. Let me start with the specifics:

SPC: You are right about Irgun/Stern. I should have said that they played a role &quot;in part&quot; in the creation of Israel.

Matt: Although a few perpetrators may be nihilists I do not believe that politically-motivated terrorism is at its core nihilistic.

Andrew W: With due respect, saying that &quot;terrorism is political violence that causes terror&quot; is a tautology that is useless, not correct. Parsimony in definition is one thing; crude  over-simplification is another. I do agree with the your comment about states manipulating fear to their advantage. 

PhilS: I disagree with your opinion that the jihadist objective is to overthrow Western democracies. To the contrary, I believe that is not only an impossible, even ridiculous objective even if it were true, but that in fact the jihadist campaign is overtly defensive in nature. They want to preserve what they see is a cultural belief system under siege, even if they encourage &quot;third column&quot; seditious activity in places ike the UK, France and the Netherlands. (Incidentally, much thanks for the link over at NM)

That brings me to the general point, one that you all have noted: the quote about the last gasp of the dying man is wrong. I guess I should have clarified better in the post why I believe it to be true. Here goes my explanation:

The jihadist cause is doomed to fail because its ideological appeal is waning even in the Muslim world and only finds succor and refuge in failed states that are resource poor and rendered by gross poverty and ignorance, elite corruption, and persistent pre-modern ethno-religious conflicts precisely because they have not been touched by globalisation (due to their unimportance as economic entities). Some of the jihadists may come from elite classes, but the only place they have appeal is amongst the Muslim downtrodden and disaffected minorities in Western states.

Hard core Islamicists are being forced to retreat into these desperate safe havens, where they are being encircled with the purpose of choking their resource flows and re-supply lines. The job of killing them off has a ways to go when in comes to places like Somalia, the Sudan and Pakistan (and Gaza), but the writing is on the wall. In fact, it is only when Islamicists can cloak their objectives in nationalist or tribalist garb (such as in Palestine or in the Hindu Kush) that they continue to maintain some type of popular appeal. But the Wahhabist/Salafist brand of Sunni internationalism is clearly being rolled back along the lines I describe above. Western adherents may be locally dangerous but cannot broaden their appeal. Shiia extremism is mitigated by the fact that it clashes with Sunni interests and has a &quot;return to sender&quot; stamp on it called Iran (which promotes caution in Iranian decision-making when its core state values come into play).

It may not be publicly discussed and is overshadowed by the overt military campaigns in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan (and the Philippines), but transnational intelligence sharing and joint covert counter-terrorism operations have increased exponentially in the last five years and have consequently been increasingly successful in early detection and neutralisation of Islamicist cells. This includes intelligence sharing by traditional rivals on matters of mutual counter-terrorism interest, a process that crosses ideological divides and which includes identifying and disrupting Islamicist funding and support networks as well as terrorist cells

As I mention in the post, that in turn has forced the Islamicists to atomise their operations, to the point of using &quot;Lone Wolf&quot; agents that are hard to detect but who generally have much more limited impact in the conduct of their operations (Major Hassan being a case in point).

All of which is to say that even though the struggle is far from over and there will be plenty more terrorist attacks in the near future (as their desperation increases), and that the outcome in failed states (especially Afghanistan and Pakistan) is far from certain, I nevertheless believe that the jihadists have seen the crest of their wave. Their best bet is to revert to localised &quot;reminder&quot; operations that serve notice that they are still capable of inflicting tactical damage in contested spaces. But as a strategic actor projecting influence on the global playing field, they are all but done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Thanks all for the informed responses. There is much to reflect on but I shall limit myself to a few points. Let me start with the specifics:</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>SPC: You are right about Irgun/Stern. I should have said that they played a role &#8220;in part&#8221; in the creation of Israel.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Matt: Although a few perpetrators may be nihilists I do not believe that politically-motivated terrorism is at its core nihilistic.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Andrew W: With due respect, saying that &#8220;terrorism is political violence that causes terror&#8221; is a tautology that is useless, not correct. Parsimony in definition is one thing; crude  over-simplification is another. I do agree with the your comment about states manipulating fear to their advantage. </p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>PhilS: I disagree with your opinion that the jihadist objective is to overthrow Western democracies. To the contrary, I believe that is not only an impossible, even ridiculous objective even if it were true, but that in fact the jihadist campaign is overtly defensive in nature. They want to preserve what they see is a cultural belief system under siege, even if they encourage &#8220;third column&#8221; seditious activity in places ike the UK, France and the Netherlands. (Incidentally, much thanks for the link over at NM)</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>That brings me to the general point, one that you all have noted: the quote about the last gasp of the dying man is wrong. I guess I should have clarified better in the post why I believe it to be true. Here goes my explanation:</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>The jihadist cause is doomed to fail because its ideological appeal is waning even in the Muslim world and only finds succor and refuge in failed states that are resource poor and rendered by gross poverty and ignorance, elite corruption, and persistent pre-modern ethno-religious conflicts precisely because they have not been touched by globalisation (due to their unimportance as economic entities). Some of the jihadists may come from elite classes, but the only place they have appeal is amongst the Muslim downtrodden and disaffected minorities in Western states.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Hard core Islamicists are being forced to retreat into these desperate safe havens, where they are being encircled with the purpose of choking their resource flows and re-supply lines. The job of killing them off has a ways to go when in comes to places like Somalia, the Sudan and Pakistan (and Gaza), but the writing is on the wall. In fact, it is only when Islamicists can cloak their objectives in nationalist or tribalist garb (such as in Palestine or in the Hindu Kush) that they continue to maintain some type of popular appeal. But the Wahhabist/Salafist brand of Sunni internationalism is clearly being rolled back along the lines I describe above. Western adherents may be locally dangerous but cannot broaden their appeal. Shiia extremism is mitigated by the fact that it clashes with Sunni interests and has a &#8220;return to sender&#8221; stamp on it called Iran (which promotes caution in Iranian decision-making when its core state values come into play).</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>It may not be publicly discussed and is overshadowed by the overt military campaigns in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan (and the Philippines), but transnational intelligence sharing and joint covert counter-terrorism operations have increased exponentially in the last five years and have consequently been increasingly successful in early detection and neutralisation of Islamicist cells. This includes intelligence sharing by traditional rivals on matters of mutual counter-terrorism interest, a process that crosses ideological divides and which includes identifying and disrupting Islamicist funding and support networks as well as terrorist cells</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>As I mention in the post, that in turn has forced the Islamicists to atomise their operations, to the point of using &#8220;Lone Wolf&#8221; agents that are hard to detect but who generally have much more limited impact in the conduct of their operations (Major Hassan being a case in point).</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>All of which is to say that even though the struggle is far from over and there will be plenty more terrorist attacks in the near future (as their desperation increases), and that the outcome in failed states (especially Afghanistan and Pakistan) is far from certain, I nevertheless believe that the jihadists have seen the crest of their wave. Their best bet is to revert to localised &#8220;reminder&#8221; operations that serve notice that they are still capable of inflicting tactical damage in contested spaces. But as a strategic actor projecting influence on the global playing field, they are all but done.
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14845</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14845</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;imho the jihadists are trying to overthrow our Western democracy and it is legitimate for us to take the fight into countries that are not ruled democratically or at least with popular support.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&#039;We&#039; were already doing that, and more besides, up to and including taking the fight into countries ruled with popular support. Not to mention providing support for tyrants when it suits us. So we&#039;ve sown dragons&#039; teeth.

Having said that maybe &#039;jihad&#039; was inevitable anyway. I can&#039;t see a viable military solution, primarily because the soldiers on one side can self-recruit, train themselves (or even get training from their enemy) and act autonomously. Which inevitably brings us back to good policework on the one hand, and looking for better diplomatic and domestic solutions on the other. By all means we can disrupt their support base in the meantime if possible, but we have to bear in mind the collateral damage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<blockquote>imho the jihadists are trying to overthrow our Western democracy and it is legitimate for us to take the fight into countries that are not ruled democratically or at least with popular support.</p></blockquote>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>&#8216;We&#8217; were already doing that, and more besides, up to and including taking the fight into countries ruled with popular support. Not to mention providing support for tyrants when it suits us. So we&#8217;ve sown dragons&#8217; teeth.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Having said that maybe &#8216;jihad&#8217; was inevitable anyway. I can&#8217;t see a viable military solution, primarily because the soldiers on one side can self-recruit, train themselves (or even get training from their enemy) and act autonomously. Which inevitably brings us back to good policework on the one hand, and looking for better diplomatic and domestic solutions on the other. By all means we can disrupt their support base in the meantime if possible, but we have to bear in mind the collateral damage.
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Phil Sage</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14842</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Sage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14842</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In that measure I would say that the jihadists are losing, which is what prompted me to open the post with the quote from a veteran SOLIC professional. However, when it comes to the likes of Pakistan, the Sudan or Afghanistan, then the issue remains very much open.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

A fascinating post and discussion as usual.  I wish I had more time to consider and post more appropriate and well thought responses.

I disagree with the last gasp of a dying man quote but understand why you included it.  Gavrip Principio, Eire, Israel, the Boer and any number of other examples during the retreat of the British empire are sufficient to demonstrate the effectiveness of terrorism as a weapon.  The point is well made by the Tamils &amp; Al Qaeda in Iraq that when the terrorists turn on their own population rather than the ruling class they are losing.

Andrew W makes a good point that politically weak governments are prone to manipulate the spectre of terrorism for their own ends.

And weak politicians simply choose appeasement over hard decisions.  That is what we are seeing with Obama.

I am interested in your views on the Clash of Civilisations.  This post is an interesting contextual first chapter but it must be leading somewhere.  Personally I see jihadist terrorism as being a multi generational conflict.  Until those Islamic nations have developed and educated and prosperous middle class living reasonably democratically there will be no sustained peace.  Iraq represented a country much further along that path than Afghanistan which is why it was chosen.  Oil and Bush unfinished business with Saddam were not sufficient reasons in and of themselves to justify war.  The possibility of WMD being provided to and used by terrorists and the opportunity to provide an example democracy to the rest of the Arab world were the reasons for going into Iraq.  

Leaving Afghanistan as the sole front in the war against Jihadist terrorism would mean inevitable defeat due to the nature and backwardness of the country. 

imho the jihadists are trying to overthrow our Western democracy and it is legitimate for us to take the fight into countries that are not ruled democratically or at least with popular support.

So I look forward to your next chapter where you develop the clash of civilisations theme, either agreeing or disagreeing or in a different direction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<blockquote>In that measure I would say that the jihadists are losing, which is what prompted me to open the post with the quote from a veteran SOLIC professional. However, when it comes to the likes of Pakistan, the Sudan or Afghanistan, then the issue remains very much open.</p></blockquote>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>A fascinating post and discussion as usual.  I wish I had more time to consider and post more appropriate and well thought responses.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>I disagree with the last gasp of a dying man quote but understand why you included it.  Gavrip Principio, Eire, Israel, the Boer and any number of other examples during the retreat of the British empire are sufficient to demonstrate the effectiveness of terrorism as a weapon.  The point is well made by the Tamils &amp; Al Qaeda in Iraq that when the terrorists turn on their own population rather than the ruling class they are losing.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Andrew W makes a good point that politically weak governments are prone to manipulate the spectre of terrorism for their own ends.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>And weak politicians simply choose appeasement over hard decisions.  That is what we are seeing with Obama.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>I am interested in your views on the Clash of Civilisations.  This post is an interesting contextual first chapter but it must be leading somewhere.  Personally I see jihadist terrorism as being a multi generational conflict.  Until those Islamic nations have developed and educated and prosperous middle class living reasonably democratically there will be no sustained peace.  Iraq represented a country much further along that path than Afghanistan which is why it was chosen.  Oil and Bush unfinished business with Saddam were not sufficient reasons in and of themselves to justify war.  The possibility of WMD being provided to and used by terrorists and the opportunity to provide an example democracy to the rest of the Arab world were the reasons for going into Iraq.  </p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Leaving Afghanistan as the sole front in the war against Jihadist terrorism would mean inevitable defeat due to the nature and backwardness of the country. </p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>imho the jihadists are trying to overthrow our Western democracy and it is legitimate for us to take the fight into countries that are not ruled democratically or at least with popular support.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>So I look forward to your next chapter where you develop the clash of civilisations theme, either agreeing or disagreeing or in a different direction.
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew W</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14839</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 09:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14839</guid>
		<description>&quot;Simple as it is, your definition is a tautology.&quot;

Well that was sorta the aim, to summarise the core of what I read as your argument in a few words, your labelling it a tautology presumably means I was correct.

My use of the word “perhaps&quot; was not accidental, I&#039;m aware of the apparent contradiction.
&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;perhaps a better argument for an example of terrorism is states controlling their own people…by creating a fear of that defeat…”. What happened to threat or use of violence as per your definition?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That was put as a suggestion for another perspective, not a conclusion, the threat of violence is advanced by the State, with the enemy as the agent of that violence.

 It may not fly as a form of terrorism, but I think it&#039;s interesting in that states do sometimes create fear in their populations by using exaggeration of an external threat as a means of controlling that population.
 So the threat of violence to create fear to advance a political ends is there.


&lt;blockquote&gt;As for your remark about disloyal opposition and Obama’s electoral chances, you are reading way too much into my post. Try to stay on topic.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It was a question Pablo, I take it your answer is no.
  
&lt;blockquote&gt;“terrorism is the last desperate gasp of a dying man. The cause is lost, its ideological appeal is on the wane, and thus the zealots respond by desperate acts of wanton mayhem in a last ditch effort to rattle the nerves of the subject and erode his will to continue to push his agenda to completion.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m surprised you give such importance to this quote, given that it obviously is contradicted by many of the examples of terrorism you give, as you illustrate, terrorism has been part of many successful campaigns.

&lt;blockquote&gt;In all cases terrorism is by definition a criminal act, but its strategic utility varies according to prospects of its objective(s) being achieved.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t buy that, I assume by &quot;criminal act&quot; you mean that acts of terrorism contravene international law, I think that&#039;s putting the cart in front of the horse. if the law were changed to allow terrorism by some nations, as it appears to already - by the definition I used above - would you then argue that &quot;the use or threat of use of violence to create terror in the pursuit of a political agenda&quot; was no longer terrorism, because it was no longer a criminal act?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>&#8220;Simple as it is, your definition is a tautology.&#8221;</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Well that was sorta the aim, to summarise the core of what I read as your argument in a few words, your labelling it a tautology presumably means I was correct.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>My use of the word “perhaps&#8221; was not accidental, I&#8217;m aware of the apparent contradiction.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<blockquote>&#8220;perhaps a better argument for an example of terrorism is states controlling their own people…by creating a fear of that defeat…”. What happened to threat or use of violence as per your definition?</p></blockquote>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>That was put as a suggestion for another perspective, not a conclusion, the threat of violence is advanced by the State, with the enemy as the agent of that violence.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p> It may not fly as a form of terrorism, but I think it&#8217;s interesting in that states do sometimes create fear in their populations by using exaggeration of an external threat as a means of controlling that population.<br />
 So the threat of violence to create fear to advance a political ends is there.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<blockquote>As for your remark about disloyal opposition and Obama’s electoral chances, you are reading way too much into my post. Try to stay on topic.</p></blockquote>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>It was a question Pablo, I take it your answer is no.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<blockquote>“terrorism is the last desperate gasp of a dying man. The cause is lost, its ideological appeal is on the wane, and thus the zealots respond by desperate acts of wanton mayhem in a last ditch effort to rattle the nerves of the subject and erode his will to continue to push his agenda to completion.”</p></blockquote>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>I&#8217;m surprised you give such importance to this quote, given that it obviously is contradicted by many of the examples of terrorism you give, as you illustrate, terrorism has been part of many successful campaigns.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<blockquote>In all cases terrorism is by definition a criminal act, but its strategic utility varies according to prospects of its objective(s) being achieved.</p></blockquote>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>I don&#8217;t buy that, I assume by &#8220;criminal act&#8221; you mean that acts of terrorism contravene international law, I think that&#8217;s putting the cart in front of the horse. if the law were changed to allow terrorism by some nations, as it appears to already &#8211; by the definition I used above &#8211; would you then argue that &#8220;the use or threat of use of violence to create terror in the pursuit of a political agenda&#8221; was no longer terrorism, because it was no longer a criminal act?
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14838</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14838</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s easier to understand terrorism as a strategy when there is a strategic force behind it, but it&#039;s nihilism that truly terrifies. By its nature, however, nihilism is immune to study, and too often gets put in the hard basket. What is the strategic utiliy of nihilism?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>It&#8217;s easier to understand terrorism as a strategy when there is a strategic force behind it, but it&#8217;s nihilism that truly terrifies. By its nature, however, nihilism is immune to study, and too often gets put in the hard basket. What is the strategic utiliy of nihilism?
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SPC</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14837</link>
		<dc:creator>SPC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14837</guid>
		<description>I would add that &quot;criminal&quot; terrorism is not just a resort to a desperate act, but a deliberate choice to provoke a response. 

A case in point of much relevance. 

The Afghanistan mujahideen could have been seen by some (their Arab allies) as being engaged in a war with a declining (secular) Soviet superpower, and that this engagement was the noblest act of their lives. 

Thus Arabs looking for a continuing alliance to engage in a struggle with another secular (or at least non Moslem) superpower. In this being the champions of Islam confronting the non Moslem world. 

The regional purpose of which is to mobilise (at least) sentiment in the Islamic world in common cause against the non Moslem &quot;secular world&quot; and to promote resistance to regimes seen as secularising or suppressing Islamic political movements. 

Combine that with observing the way the Cold War divided the world between &quot;us and them&quot;, and that then successfully provoking the Americans (after the Cold war ended) would divide the world between those on the side of the Americans or the Islamists - the concept of which would appeal to their religious sense of the militant jihad and their chauvinism in being men of destiny.  

To suggest that the resort to terrorism is simply a desperate act is hubris. If the use of terrorism is sufficient to deny victory and peace to the superior conventional force and the superior force is unable to maintain conventional supremay indefinitely, then the ultimate result is unknown. And if the intent of the terrorist is to initially gain in status by denying the superpower conclusive victory, that of itself achieves its goal. The secondary goal then is to either outlast the superpower and or build up support for Islamic resistance to secularism. 

A second case in point would be that esablishment power (abuse of power terrorism) is often exercised to provoke dissent - which is then used to identify those who who would dare resist increasing authoritarianism.  I would suggest that those who oppose increasing security powers etc (say surveillance) are the first to be so categorised. 

PS  a quibble - I doubt Irgun or Stern&#039;s existence was required for the state of Israel to establish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>I would add that &#8220;criminal&#8221; terrorism is not just a resort to a desperate act, but a deliberate choice to provoke a response. </p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>A case in point of much relevance. </p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>The Afghanistan mujahideen could have been seen by some (their Arab allies) as being engaged in a war with a declining (secular) Soviet superpower, and that this engagement was the noblest act of their lives. </p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Thus Arabs looking for a continuing alliance to engage in a struggle with another secular (or at least non Moslem) superpower. In this being the champions of Islam confronting the non Moslem world. </p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>The regional purpose of which is to mobilise (at least) sentiment in the Islamic world in common cause against the non Moslem &#8220;secular world&#8221; and to promote resistance to regimes seen as secularising or suppressing Islamic political movements. </p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Combine that with observing the way the Cold War divided the world between &#8220;us and them&#8221;, and that then successfully provoking the Americans (after the Cold war ended) would divide the world between those on the side of the Americans or the Islamists &#8211; the concept of which would appeal to their religious sense of the militant jihad and their chauvinism in being men of destiny.  </p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>To suggest that the resort to terrorism is simply a desperate act is hubris. If the use of terrorism is sufficient to deny victory and peace to the superior conventional force and the superior force is unable to maintain conventional supremay indefinitely, then the ultimate result is unknown. And if the intent of the terrorist is to initially gain in status by denying the superpower conclusive victory, that of itself achieves its goal. The secondary goal then is to either outlast the superpower and or build up support for Islamic resistance to secularism. </p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>A second case in point would be that esablishment power (abuse of power terrorism) is often exercised to provoke dissent &#8211; which is then used to identify those who who would dare resist increasing authoritarianism.  I would suggest that those who oppose increasing security powers etc (say surveillance) are the first to be so categorised. </p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>PS  a quibble &#8211; I doubt Irgun or Stern&#8217;s existence was required for the state of Israel to establish.
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14836</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 07:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14836</guid>
		<description>If terrorism is the last desperate act of a dying man, it can be of little use to criminals, even though it qualifies as a criminal act. However, if it can efficiently enforce &#039;omerta&#039;, then it has strategic value but can hardly be described as &#039;last gasp&#039;. 

I think there&#039;s a distinction to be made between terrorism as a tool and terrorism as a goal in itself. The terrorism practised by Al Quaeda, for example, masquerades as strategy (insofar as it has a philosophy), and has allied itself with criminal elements in Afghanistan etc, but its source is (among other places) in Egyptian torture chambers (terrorist structures themselves), and its goal is revenge. The terrorism practised by the Taliban on the other hand is about money, power and land.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>If terrorism is the last desperate act of a dying man, it can be of little use to criminals, even though it qualifies as a criminal act. However, if it can efficiently enforce &#8216;omerta&#8217;, then it has strategic value but can hardly be described as &#8216;last gasp&#8217;. </p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>I think there&#8217;s a distinction to be made between terrorism as a tool and terrorism as a goal in itself. The terrorism practised by Al Quaeda, for example, masquerades as strategy (insofar as it has a philosophy), and has allied itself with criminal elements in Afghanistan etc, but its source is (among other places) in Egyptian torture chambers (terrorist structures themselves), and its goal is revenge. The terrorism practised by the Taliban on the other hand is about money, power and land.
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pablo</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14834</link>
		<dc:creator>Pablo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 06:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14834</guid>
		<description>Strategic utility derives from objectives being achieved (ideological or not). Criminal terrorism in, say, Sicily has strategic utility if it enforces &quot;omerta&quot; amongst the citizenry which precludes police from disrupting the extortion rackets and and Mafia control of important industries (rubbish collection, for instance). Jihadist terrorism has strategic utility if it sways Muslim opinion against pro-Western governments in the Islamic world, thereby destabilising them in favour of a fundamentalist alternative,  or forces a rethink and retreat of Western interests from the Muslim world. That, again, is more a function of the strength or weakness of the subject regime rather than the terrorist&#039;s ideological appeal,

In that measure I would say that the jihadists are losing, which is what prompted me to open the post with the quote from a veteran SOLIC professional. However, when it comes to the likes of Pakistan, the Sudan or Afghanistan, then the issue remains very much open.

In all cases terrorism is by definition a criminal act, but its strategic utility varies according to prospects of its objective(s) being achieved.

Allied fire and nuclear bombing of civilian population centres could well have been criminal, but it had strategic utility. Japanese massacres of Chinese, Filipino, and Korean populations did not, not because they were criminal but because they did not achieve the desired objective. In that sense, to the victors go the spoils (and the writing of history).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Strategic utility derives from objectives being achieved (ideological or not). Criminal terrorism in, say, Sicily has strategic utility if it enforces &#8220;omerta&#8221; amongst the citizenry which precludes police from disrupting the extortion rackets and and Mafia control of important industries (rubbish collection, for instance). Jihadist terrorism has strategic utility if it sways Muslim opinion against pro-Western governments in the Islamic world, thereby destabilising them in favour of a fundamentalist alternative,  or forces a rethink and retreat of Western interests from the Muslim world. That, again, is more a function of the strength or weakness of the subject regime rather than the terrorist&#8217;s ideological appeal,</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>In that measure I would say that the jihadists are losing, which is what prompted me to open the post with the quote from a veteran SOLIC professional. However, when it comes to the likes of Pakistan, the Sudan or Afghanistan, then the issue remains very much open.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>In all cases terrorism is by definition a criminal act, but its strategic utility varies according to prospects of its objective(s) being achieved.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Allied fire and nuclear bombing of civilian population centres could well have been criminal, but it had strategic utility. Japanese massacres of Chinese, Filipino, and Korean populations did not, not because they were criminal but because they did not achieve the desired objective. In that sense, to the victors go the spoils (and the writing of history).
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14832</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 05:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14832</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I believe that political motivated violence can be handled by criminal law frameworks in democracies and do not have to be awarded a special status that requires separate forms of adjudication. That only reifies the terrorist cause.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So then the distinction is between military action and criminal terrorism. Good point, but doesn&#039;t that render the strategic utility question moot, if terrorism is by definition a criminal act?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<blockquote>I believe that political motivated violence can be handled by criminal law frameworks in democracies and do not have to be awarded a special status that requires separate forms of adjudication. That only reifies the terrorist cause.</p></blockquote>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>So then the distinction is between military action and criminal terrorism. Good point, but doesn&#8217;t that render the strategic utility question moot, if terrorism is by definition a criminal act?
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pablo</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14831</link>
		<dc:creator>Pablo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 04:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14831</guid>
		<description>Excellent points Matt.

I would simply note that, with the exception of criminal terrorism, in all cases the justification for terrorism is ideological, which in turn defines the strategic goals that terrorism, as a tactic, wishes to advance.

This discussion has a natural follow up in the debate about trying the Guantanamo 4  (9/11 conspirators) in US federal court in NYC. Although it may seem contradictory in light of the discussion above, I am all for it, but it seems that many (mostly right-conservative) commentators do not have the same faith in the US justice system that I do and want them to be tried in those special military tribunals.

I believe that political motivated violence can be handled by criminal law frameworks in democracies and do not have to be awarded a special status that requires separate forms of adjudication. That only reifies the terrorist cause.

It would be also interesting to hear what readers feel about the Urewera 17 in light of this discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Excellent points Matt.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>I would simply note that, with the exception of criminal terrorism, in all cases the justification for terrorism is ideological, which in turn defines the strategic goals that terrorism, as a tactic, wishes to advance.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>This discussion has a natural follow up in the debate about trying the Guantanamo 4  (9/11 conspirators) in US federal court in NYC. Although it may seem contradictory in light of the discussion above, I am all for it, but it seems that many (mostly right-conservative) commentators do not have the same faith in the US justice system that I do and want them to be tried in those special military tribunals.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>I believe that political motivated violence can be handled by criminal law frameworks in democracies and do not have to be awarded a special status that requires separate forms of adjudication. That only reifies the terrorist cause.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>It would be also interesting to hear what readers feel about the Urewera 17 in light of this discussion.
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14830</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 03:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14830</guid>
		<description>Thankyou for the discussion.

My contention is that the motivating factors behind state repression and individual terrorist acts are completely different. One is an act perpetrated by an established order - the knock on the door at 2am for example. The other is an act, purportedly against the established order, which often in fact has far more to do with the psychology of a few teenage males (that&#039;s the short version). Certainly these individuals can be manipulated by external forces, but their influences are unpredictable at best. The &#039;Terrorist State&#039; is far better compared with a large criminal organisation than a terrorist cell. Certainly both will commit atrocities, but if the result defines the purpose, then all violence is terrorism, and the definition becomes meaningless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Thankyou for the discussion.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>My contention is that the motivating factors behind state repression and individual terrorist acts are completely different. One is an act perpetrated by an established order &#8211; the knock on the door at 2am for example. The other is an act, purportedly against the established order, which often in fact has far more to do with the psychology of a few teenage males (that&#8217;s the short version). Certainly these individuals can be manipulated by external forces, but their influences are unpredictable at best. The &#8216;Terrorist State&#8217; is far better compared with a large criminal organisation than a terrorist cell. Certainly both will commit atrocities, but if the result defines the purpose, then all violence is terrorism, and the definition becomes meaningless.
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pablo</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14829</link>
		<dc:creator>Pablo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 03:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14829</guid>
		<description>Matt: I disagree that the distinction is just semantic. Tyranny is an (extreme) authoritarian regime type; terrorism in an instrument tyrants and authoritarians (often) use to enforce their rule. Not all despots use terrorism, and not all despots are tyrants (think so called benevolent authoritarians such as national populists or the PAP regime in Singapore).

In a way, discussions of 4th generation warfare are of the &quot;back to the future&quot; type, since it returns to the 1st generation concepts of fluidity, deception and misdirection that Tsun Tsu so aptly described (and I agree that he is the father of asymmetric warfare).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Matt: I disagree that the distinction is just semantic. Tyranny is an (extreme) authoritarian regime type; terrorism in an instrument tyrants and authoritarians (often) use to enforce their rule. Not all despots use terrorism, and not all despots are tyrants (think so called benevolent authoritarians such as national populists or the PAP regime in Singapore).</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>In a way, discussions of 4th generation warfare are of the &#8220;back to the future&#8221; type, since it returns to the 1st generation concepts of fluidity, deception and misdirection that Tsun Tsu so aptly described (and I agree that he is the father of asymmetric warfare).
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14828</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 03:17:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14828</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s semantics, but I think you&#039;re describing tyranny, not terrorism. To some extent all these actions can be described as &#039;4th generation conflict&#039;, and in that sense Tzun Tzu probably still has the last word from a strategic perspective. 

When I said state terrorism - or tyranny - &#039;involves turning on your neighbours&#039; I didn&#039;t mean neighbouring countries, though it often involves that too. But I think you probably understand that better than I do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>It&#8217;s semantics, but I think you&#8217;re describing tyranny, not terrorism. To some extent all these actions can be described as &#8216;4th generation conflict&#8217;, and in that sense Tzun Tzu probably still has the last word from a strategic perspective. </p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>When I said state terrorism &#8211; or tyranny &#8211; &#8216;involves turning on your neighbours&#8217; I didn&#8217;t mean neighbouring countries, though it often involves that too. But I think you probably understand that better than I do.
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pablo</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14827</link>
		<dc:creator>Pablo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 03:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14827</guid>
		<description>Ok Matt, I see your point on terrorists turning on their support base but am still not sure that it is universally true. 

As for state versus non-state terrorism, I make distinctions between several types of terrorism in the post (to include state sponsored as well as the above), so can only refer you back to it. I will say, having lived under two state terrorist regimes (Argentina and Chile), that states are quite effective at terrorising their populations, and do  not always enter into conflict with their neighbours. In fact, as &quot;Operation Condor&quot; in the 1970s shows, state terrorist regimes can cooperate quite well when it comes to destroying their mutual political enemies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>Ok Matt, I see your point on terrorists turning on their support base but am still not sure that it is universally true. </p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>As for state versus non-state terrorism, I make distinctions between several types of terrorism in the post (to include state sponsored as well as the above), so can only refer you back to it. I will say, having lived under two state terrorist regimes (Argentina and Chile), that states are quite effective at terrorising their populations, and do  not always enter into conflict with their neighbours. In fact, as &#8220;Operation Condor&#8221; in the 1970s shows, state terrorist regimes can cooperate quite well when it comes to destroying their mutual political enemies.
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/on-the-strategic-utility-of-terrorism/#comment-14825</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 02:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=3704#comment-14825</guid>
		<description>I make a distinction between &#039;State terrorism&#039; and the home-grown variety. I&#039;m not sure that &#039;State terrorism&#039; qualifies as terrorism, but it certainly involves turning on one&#039;s neighbour.

At the &#039;home grown&#039; level, terrorists hope to inspire the general population to their cause. This attempt inevitably fails, and then the terrorists turn upon the people they were hoping to &#039;save&#039;, seeing emnity in their lack of support. It&#039;s also possible that they just become more comfortable with savagery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>I make a distinction between &#8216;State terrorism&#8217; and the home-grown variety. I&#8217;m not sure that &#8216;State terrorism&#8217; qualifies as terrorism, but it certainly involves turning on one&#8217;s neighbour.</p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'>
<p>At the &#8216;home grown&#8217; level, terrorists hope to inspire the general population to their cause. This attempt inevitably fails, and then the terrorists turn upon the people they were hoping to &#8217;save&#8217;, seeing emnity in their lack of support. It&#8217;s also possible that they just become more comfortable with savagery.
</p>
</div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
