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	<title>Comments on: Kiwipolitico&#8217;s January</title>
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	<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/</link>
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		<title>By: StephenR</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1665</link>
		<dc:creator>StephenR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 02:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=859#comment-1665</guid>
		<description>Well okay, yes, but his are so much less screeching than others, and are relatively rare, so I wouldn&#039;t necessarily characterise it as a common feature of his site. The &#039;WWF&#039; to Whale Oil&#039;s/No Minister&#039;s &#039;Sea Shepherd&#039;, perhaps?</description>
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<p>Well okay, yes, but his are so much less screeching than others, and are relatively rare, so I wouldn&#8217;t necessarily characterise it as a common feature of his site. The &#8216;WWF&#8217; to Whale Oil&#8217;s/No Minister&#8217;s &#8216;Sea Shepherd&#8217;, perhaps?
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1664</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 02:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>StephenR: You don&#039;t expect partisan attacks from DPF or his resident commentariat? 

L</description>
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<p>StephenR: You don&#8217;t expect partisan attacks from DPF or his resident commentariat? </p>
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<p>L
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		<title>By: StephenR</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1662</link>
		<dc:creator>StephenR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 01:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Quality’s also a matter of what people expect from a site. What the regular posters at WOBH, No Minister and to an extent The Standard and Kiwiblog and others want (and what their respective proprietors want) is quite different to what KP is about.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I expect relentless partisan attacks from the first three (&#039;Key not that bad - so far&#039; posts from The Standard non-withstanding). Not really sure what I expect from Kiwiblog - centre-right-ness and the results of a one-man RSS search engine!?</description>
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<blockquote>Quality’s also a matter of what people expect from a site. What the regular posters at WOBH, No Minister and to an extent The Standard and Kiwiblog and others want (and what their respective proprietors want) is quite different to what KP is about.</p></blockquote>
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<p>I expect relentless partisan attacks from the first three (&#8217;Key not that bad &#8211; so far&#8217; posts from The Standard non-withstanding). Not really sure what I expect from Kiwiblog &#8211; centre-right-ness and the results of a one-man RSS search engine!?
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1661</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 00:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Quality&#039;s also a matter of what people expect from a site. What the regular posters at WOBH, No Minister and to an extent The Standard and Kiwiblog and others want (and what their respective proprietors want) is quite different to what KP is about. 

L</description>
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<p>Quality&#8217;s also a matter of what people expect from a site. What the regular posters at WOBH, No Minister and to an extent The Standard and Kiwiblog and others want (and what their respective proprietors want) is quite different to what KP is about. </p>
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<p>L
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		<title>By: StephenR</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1659</link>
		<dc:creator>StephenR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes, I didn&#039;t really take &#039;flame wars&#039; into account did I? I think Whale Oil&#039;s &#039;popular&#039; site which has a lot of posts, but little discussion was probably colouring my thinking a bit. Not that I really go there very often. Quality is certainly difficult to measure though too.</description>
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<p>Yes, I didn&#8217;t really take &#8216;flame wars&#8217; into account did I? I think Whale Oil&#8217;s &#8216;popular&#8217; site which has a lot of posts, but little discussion was probably colouring my thinking a bit. Not that I really go there very often. Quality is certainly difficult to measure though too.
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		<title>By: Lynn Prentice</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1658</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn Prentice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:53:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=859#comment-1658</guid>
		<description>It is nice having a site around on the left that is quieter than ours. Certainly you get a better class of commentator.

I&#039;ve been meaning to write some posts linking to yours with an alternate viewpoint and/or pointing out the flaws (IMHO). Unfortunately there hasn&#039;t been a lot of room in the debate left after a post here. Good to see those figures go up.

StephenR:
&lt;blockquote&gt;I’ve always thought the number of comments were probably the best indicator of how ‘good’ a blog is (subjective, yes) - there are a few higher-ranked blogs out there that post a lot, but don’t generally generate much chatter. Keep it up!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not really. If you look at the comments in this &lt;a href=&#039;http://www.thestandard.org.nz/ramshackle-pr-fiasco/&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this Nov 2007 post&lt;/a&gt; for instance, you&#039;d rapidly come to the conclusion that the number of comments is not a good measure. Personal vendattas do not make for the best reading. That wasn&#039;t the worst one. There was another in that November that almost every comment was less than 5 lines and primarily vitriol. That is why I started moderating a month or two later.

It is the quality of the chatter that is the best indicator. Mostly you get that by looking at the repetition rate of concepts. An ability of commentators to agree to disagree seems to be required....</description>
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<p>It is nice having a site around on the left that is quieter than ours. Certainly you get a better class of commentator.</p>
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<p>I&#8217;ve been meaning to write some posts linking to yours with an alternate viewpoint and/or pointing out the flaws (IMHO). Unfortunately there hasn&#8217;t been a lot of room in the debate left after a post here. Good to see those figures go up.</p>
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<p>StephenR:</p>
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<blockquote>I’ve always thought the number of comments were probably the best indicator of how ‘good’ a blog is (subjective, yes) &#8211; there are a few higher-ranked blogs out there that post a lot, but don’t generally generate much chatter. Keep it up!</p></blockquote>
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<p>Not really. If you look at the comments in this <a href='http://www.thestandard.org.nz/ramshackle-pr-fiasco/' rel="nofollow">this Nov 2007 post</a> for instance, you&#8217;d rapidly come to the conclusion that the number of comments is not a good measure. Personal vendattas do not make for the best reading. That wasn&#8217;t the worst one. There was another in that November that almost every comment was less than 5 lines and primarily vitriol. That is why I started moderating a month or two later.</p>
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<p>It is the quality of the chatter that is the best indicator. Mostly you get that by looking at the repetition rate of concepts. An ability of commentators to agree to disagree seems to be required&#8230;.
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		<title>By: StephenR</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1637</link>
		<dc:creator>StephenR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 23:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Now we just need to work on some of the commenters… please feel encouraged to moderate out the trolls and abusers.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You need to get out more! There&#039;s not much of that here at ALL, IMHO.</description>
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<blockquote>Now we just need to work on some of the commenters… please feel encouraged to moderate out the trolls and abusers.</p></blockquote>
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<p>You need to get out more! There&#8217;s not much of that here at ALL, IMHO.
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		<title>By: Thomas Beagle</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1636</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Beagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 23:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m just delighted to see a blog from the left (please excuse labeling/generalisation, etc) that manages to do a good job of putting its views forward without slurs and abuse.

Now we just need to work on some of the commenters... please feel encouraged to moderate out the trolls and abusers.</description>
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<p>I&#8217;m just delighted to see a blog from the left (please excuse labeling/generalisation, etc) that manages to do a good job of putting its views forward without slurs and abuse.</p>
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<p>Now we just need to work on some of the commenters&#8230; please feel encouraged to moderate out the trolls and abusers.
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		<title>By: Roger Nome</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1592</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Nome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 08:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=859#comment-1592</guid>
		<description>Oh and Greg - i do my cooking in the kitchen. kiwipolitico is a &quot;kitchen&quot; - what i do in another part of the house/another blog that doesn&#039;t even pretend to &quot;kitchenhood&quot;, is an entirely different matter.</description>
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<p>Oh and Greg &#8211; i do my cooking in the kitchen. kiwipolitico is a &#8220;kitchen&#8221; &#8211; what i do in another part of the house/another blog that doesn&#8217;t even pretend to &#8220;kitchenhood&#8221;, is an entirely different matter.
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		<title>By: Roger Nome</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1591</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Nome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 07:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>i thought &quot;Nats back obesity in schools&quot; was snappy, to the point and humorous. Don&#039;t really see how it could be interpreted as offensive. It could have been framed more accurately at the expense of being less &quot;catchy&quot; and &quot;attention grabbing&quot;. But that&#039;s the point of the text, not the title in my opinion.</description>
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<p>i thought &#8220;Nats back obesity in schools&#8221; was snappy, to the point and humorous. Don&#8217;t really see how it could be interpreted as offensive. It could have been framed more accurately at the expense of being less &#8220;catchy&#8221; and &#8220;attention grabbing&#8221;. But that&#8217;s the point of the text, not the title in my opinion.
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		<title>By: Jafapete</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1581</link>
		<dc:creator>Jafapete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 01:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=859#comment-1581</guid>
		<description>StephenR&lt;blockquote&gt;...the title of his latest is noticeably different in tone from anything else i’ve seen here lately, i’ll say that. Ah well, wadaya gonna do.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yeah, I guess the title of RN&#039;s post should have been, &quot;More Child Obesity the Inevitable Result of Nats&#039; Actions.&quot;</description>
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<p>StephenR</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;the title of his latest is noticeably different in tone from anything else i’ve seen here lately, i’ll say that. Ah well, wadaya gonna do.</p></blockquote>
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<p>Yeah, I guess the title of RN&#8217;s post should have been, &#8220;More Child Obesity the Inevitable Result of Nats&#8217; Actions.&#8221;
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		<title>By: StephenR</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1576</link>
		<dc:creator>StephenR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 23:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Really just thinking of stuff posted elsewhere...though the title of his latest is noticeably different in tone from anything else i&#039;ve seen here lately, i&#039;ll say that. Ah well, wadaya gonna do.</description>
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<p>Really just thinking of stuff posted elsewhere&#8230;though the title of his latest is noticeably different in tone from anything else i&#8217;ve seen here lately, i&#8217;ll say that. Ah well, wadaya gonna do.
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		<title>By: Anita</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1571</link>
		<dc:creator>Anita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 18:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>StephenR, Greg &amp; Dean,

1) Roger Nome was in from the beginning (many months ago), and I&#039;d like to thank him and Jafapete for inviting me in.

2) I honestly don&#039;t have any problem with any of his posts, I&#039;ve found them all well considered and thought provoking. Are you talking about his posts here or comments elsewhere?

3) If you want to point fingers at people for starting shouting matches in threads you&#039;ll need to point at me (or at least the people who turn up in the comments on my posts.

4) The only reason I haven&#039;t mentioned Kiwiblog is that I haven&#039;t (yet) posted anything relevant. Like RN I will use the posts there as evidence of what National is saying, and the kinds of comments as the evidence of the kinds of views National attracts and fosters.</description>
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<p>StephenR, Greg &#038; Dean,</p>
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<p>1) Roger Nome was in from the beginning (many months ago), and I&#8217;d like to thank him and Jafapete for inviting me in.</p>
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<p>2) I honestly don&#8217;t have any problem with any of his posts, I&#8217;ve found them all well considered and thought provoking. Are you talking about his posts here or comments elsewhere?</p>
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<p>3) If you want to point fingers at people for starting shouting matches in threads you&#8217;ll need to point at me (or at least the people who turn up in the comments on my posts.</p>
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<p>4) The only reason I haven&#8217;t mentioned Kiwiblog is that I haven&#8217;t (yet) posted anything relevant. Like RN I will use the posts there as evidence of what National is saying, and the kinds of comments as the evidence of the kinds of views National attracts and fosters.
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		<title>By: Pablo</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1558</link>
		<dc:creator>Pablo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 10:26:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=859#comment-1558</guid>
		<description>I am less interested in the stats than I am in contributing to the NZ political debate. I also believe, contrary to the opinion of some, that the best way to do that is to respectfully disagree, and to be polite and respectful in any event. For me that means no personal attacks, no epithets, no nonsense. Regardless of who posts and what we post elsewhere, that is the standard I signed up for when Jafapete and Anita invited me in. I expect that standard will be upheld by additional contributors and guest posters, otherwise we shall be heading down the slippery slope towards political flame wars. We all have seen what that does to the tone of the debate, so I do not have any desire to participate in such a forum. 
Anyway, that having been noted--so far, so good!</description>
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<p>I am less interested in the stats than I am in contributing to the NZ political debate. I also believe, contrary to the opinion of some, that the best way to do that is to respectfully disagree, and to be polite and respectful in any event. For me that means no personal attacks, no epithets, no nonsense. Regardless of who posts and what we post elsewhere, that is the standard I signed up for when Jafapete and Anita invited me in. I expect that standard will be upheld by additional contributors and guest posters, otherwise we shall be heading down the slippery slope towards political flame wars. We all have seen what that does to the tone of the debate, so I do not have any desire to participate in such a forum.<br />
Anyway, that having been noted&#8211;so far, so good!
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		<title>By: Paul Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1557</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 08:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My congratulations also. It&#039;s hard to consistently write considered and informed posts that promote discussion and respect differences, I think you all do it well. It&#039;s great that post the election, the rampant partisanship has abated and blogs have adopted a more moderate approach.</description>
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<p>My congratulations also. It&#8217;s hard to consistently write considered and informed posts that promote discussion and respect differences, I think you all do it well. It&#8217;s great that post the election, the rampant partisanship has abated and blogs have adopted a more moderate approach.
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		<title>By: MacDoctor</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1556</link>
		<dc:creator>MacDoctor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 06:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Congratulations, JP. Of course, you were already in Tumeke&#039;s top 20, but the addition of Anita and Pablo have certainly given the blog a much wider appeal and a more varied stance.

And, despite the detractors above, Roger is a colourful addition.
;-)</description>
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<p>Congratulations, JP. Of course, you were already in Tumeke&#8217;s top 20, but the addition of Anita and Pablo have certainly given the blog a much wider appeal and a more varied stance.</p>
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<p>And, despite the detractors above, Roger is a colourful addition.<br />
;-)
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		<title>By: Dean</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1555</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 06:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=859#comment-1555</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Why did you give Rogernome posting rights? He detracts from what is otherwise indeed a blog of ‘considered debate’ with personal attacks and petty rubbish.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I couldn&#039;t agree more. I think someone should keep a tally of his posts for the next 12 months and add one point every time he mentions Farrar or the &quot;kiwiblog right&quot;. It ought to be illuminating to say the least.</description>
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<blockquote>Why did you give Rogernome posting rights? He detracts from what is otherwise indeed a blog of ‘considered debate’ with personal attacks and petty rubbish.</p></blockquote>
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<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more. I think someone should keep a tally of his posts for the next 12 months and add one point every time he mentions Farrar or the &#8220;kiwiblog right&#8221;. It ought to be illuminating to say the least.
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1554</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 04:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is going to sound cruel, and petty........but it bugs me.

Why did you give Rogernome posting rights? He detracts from what is otherwise indeed a blog of &#039;considered debate&#039; with personal attacks and petty rubbish. 

I disagree with a lot of what Anita, Jafapete, Pablo etc say. But I do respect you guys. Rogernome.....not so much.</description>
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<p>This is going to sound cruel, and petty&#8230;&#8230;..but it bugs me.</p>
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<p>Why did you give Rogernome posting rights? He detracts from what is otherwise indeed a blog of &#8216;considered debate&#8217; with personal attacks and petty rubbish. </p>
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<p>I disagree with a lot of what Anita, Jafapete, Pablo etc say. But I do respect you guys. Rogernome&#8230;..not so much.
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		<title>By: StephenR</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1552</link>
		<dc:creator>StephenR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 04:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=859#comment-1552</guid>
		<description>Although I just noticed that Roger Nome is writing now (guest post?). Would&#039;ve thought he&#039;d be more at home at the &#039;attack blog&#039; The Standard, but there you go.</description>
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<p>Although I just noticed that Roger Nome is writing now (guest post?). Would&#8217;ve thought he&#8217;d be more at home at the &#8216;attack blog&#8217; The Standard, but there you go.
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		<title>By: StephenR</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/02/kiwipoliticos-january/#comment-1551</link>
		<dc:creator>StephenR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 04:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwipolitico.com/?p=859#comment-1551</guid>
		<description>Yes, always thoughtful, and a credit to its writers. I&#039;ve always thought the number of comments were probably the best indicator of how &#039;good&#039; a blog is (subjective, yes) - there are a few higher-ranked blogs out there that post a lot, but don&#039;t generally generate much chatter. Keep it up!</description>
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<p>Yes, always thoughtful, and a credit to its writers. I&#8217;ve always thought the number of comments were probably the best indicator of how &#8216;good&#8217; a blog is (subjective, yes) &#8211; there are a few higher-ranked blogs out there that post a lot, but don&#8217;t generally generate much chatter. Keep it up!
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